1. How does Tolkien (1964) define fantasy Compare and contrast this to the other definitions from last week’s reader.
2. Is Tolkien’s notion of the ‘faery story’ linked to fantasy genre? How closely?
3. What parallels can you find between A Wizard of Earthsea and the Harry Potter franchise?
4. What other influences does Burn (2005) suggest for Harry Potter?
5. How does the fantasy genre relate to modern media such as video games?
6. Why does the religious right in the US condemn fantasy, according to Cockrell (2004)? On what grounds does Cockrell defend fantasy literature, using Harry Potter as example?
Hi there~ Let’s start our week 5 blog. I wanna talk about Question 2: Is Tolkien’s notion of the ‘fairy story’ linked to fantasy genre? How closely? Yes, the ‘fairy story’ linked to fantasy genre. Tolkien accepts the lexicographer’s definition of fairies: “supper natural beings of diminutive size, in popular belief supposed to possess magical powers and to have great influence for good or evil over the affairs of man” (CR, P10). So, fairy story is a type of fantasy. Tolkien also mentioned that“Fantasy is a natural human activity, Fantasy is human’s imagination with images of things that are not only not actually present, but which are indeed not to be found in our primary world at all ” (CR, P45). So, the ‘fairy story’ linked to fantasy genre. But fantasy can be put to evil uses. To be continued...^-^
hi Shirley, I would like to answer no 3. What parallels can you find between A Wizard of Earthsea and the Harry Potter franchise?
Gen and Harry both had discovered that they have the talent in the magical power when they were in the childhood and prior entering to the magical school. Gen and Harry both had magical power talents by blood, Gen's power through his aunt and Harry's power through his parents. In these two stories, Gen and Harry both had friends and enemies. The structures of these two stories are quite similar.
Hi Jan，I agree with your point of view! ^-^ A Wizard of Earthsea and the Harry Potter are both magic novels. The bizarre magic attracts people to read these two novels and both of them are to be continued, the destiny of the dramatis personae is under the writer’s pen. Both of them show the fight between good and evil. In Wizard of Earthsea, the good ones fight against the “Old Powers”. In Harry Potter, the good ones defense against the “Dark Arts”. A Wizard of Earthsea and the Harry Potter, the naive friendship between kids reflects the complicated conflicts of adults. One more thing, I think they are both low-fantasy.
Hi shirley, I'm not so sure - I think that "A Wizard of Earthsea" is a 'High Fantasy' and "Harry Potter" is a 'Low Fantasy'. Let's see what other members would say about this one.
I have agreement with your point that "Harry Potter is a low fantasy and Wizard of Earthsea or The lord of the Rings are high fantasy". In my opinion, the reason why because Harry Potter is not the lightweight imitation of such serious high fantasy as the others as I mentioned before such as The lord of the Rings and Wizard of Earthsea which are considered as the high fantasy. Therefore, all in all, Harry Potter is a low fantasy.
Hi,all, I wanna focus on the question 1 and question 5.
1. How does Tolkien (1964) define fantasy Compare and contrast this to the other definitions from last week’s reader.
Well, I'm afraid I can't find the definition of fantasy by J.R.R.Tolkien. Anyone please post for me if you got the definition of fnatasy. According to the Wikipedia (2008), it give a extremely understandable and detailed explanation of the word fantasy and explained as that fantasy can be considered as a genre which uses lots of magic and the other supernatural forms as a bacical element of going through the plot,theme, and setting of from the stories. The fantasy is commonly focus on science fiction and horror and adventureal by the expectation that it stters clear of technological and macabre themes as well as that there is no doubt that there are many famous fantasy writting artists such as the God of Fantasy J.R.R. Tolkien.
Moreover, basing on the other definitons of fantasy, Globaloness (2008) give a different explanation of fantasy compare with the definition given by Wikipedia and highlights the characters in fantasy stories as well as Characteristics of fantasy fiction and its many overlapping sub-genres are the subjects of debate among some fans and writers. A critical characteristic is that the world features some difference from Earth that is not a result of science or technology, but rather the result of magic or other anomalous phenomena. But, again, definitions and opinions on the proper classification differ. As a genre, fantasy is both associated and contrasted with science fiction and horror fiction.
5. How does the fantasy genre relate to modern media such as video games?
No one can deny that there are couples of video game basing on the hot fantasy stories such as Harry Potter, The load of the Rings and so on. Let's go back the question how does the fantasy genre relate to modern media such as video games? When the fantasy story comes out and publish to the reader, if the story is really popular to the readers such as Harry Potter, it's such a really mordern way to creat the story into the game video or even the movie. Basing on the original fantasy story, the video game must be based on the story's main plot, theme and main characters. Therefore, as we can see, it is clearly to see that the fantasy genre and modern media such as video games keep very close and the relationship is basing and being based. Sometimes in order to make the video game more dramatic and colourful, they change the plot from the original fantasy or add some more characters into the game video if necessary. However, the main point is that the main plot, background and theme of the fantasy story is not changed.
Furthermore, fantasy can be considerd as the popilar genre and adapting to the fantasy movies have been increasingly popular. According to the Wikipedia (2008), it is fantasy literature which has always been the genre's primary medium. Fantasy role-playing games cross several different media. The "pen & paper" role-playing game Dungeons & Dragons was the first and is arguably the most successful and influential, and the science fantasy role-playing game series Final Fantasy has been an icon of the console RPG genre.
hi guys. i agree with shirley about the parallels between Earthsea and Harry Potter. As for question number 6, Cockrell suggests that the religious right in the US condemns fantasy because they believe it encourages children to misbehave and be rude to their superiors, and may lead to lying and other deceitful behaviour. Cockrell defends fantasy literature by explaining that magic is like any other science that should be studied.
Just to add to question 6, in . "Harry Potter and the Witch Hunters: a Social Context for the Attacks on Harry Potter", Amanda Cockrell suggests that the series caused controversy because 1). Harry Potter lives in our world (i.e. lives among non magical citizens in London) and 2.those in opposition are frequently parodied throughout the series (i.e. The Dursley’s as an example of any child’s most awful relatives).
Hi guys, I am sorry to start this week’s discussion so late. After reading you guys’ comments, I wanna say something about those questions as well.
First of all, I agree with Shirley’s opinion of question 2, because just like what she mentioned “fairy story is a type of fantasy”. Exactly, maybe many supernatural or immortal beings (i.e. fairy, elf, leprechaun, etc.) are existent in the world, but who knows? And who has witnessed them? The fairy story was created on the basis of human beings’ life, and their action, feeling, words, and so on in the story liked natural human’s activity, too.
Secondly, about the question 3, I agree with Jan and Aldous’s views. That’s because I think “A Wizard of Earthsea” is in accord with the description of wikipedia about the high fantasy’s features “these stories are generally serious in tone and often epic in scope, dealing with themes of grand struggle against supernatural, evil forces…Some typical characteristics of high fantasy include fantastical elements such as elves and dwarves, magic, wizards, invented languages, quests, coming-of-age themes, and multi-volume narratives.” However, the Harry Potter just like what low fantasy is: downplaying of epic or dramatic aspects, de-emphasising magic, real-world settings, realism, cynical storytelling and dark fantasy (wikipedia). So, I think “A Wizard of Earthsea” is high fantasy while “Harry Potter” belongs to the low fantasy realm.
Finally, I want to reply to Aldous’s question about the question 1. From last week’s reader, I find that “Fantasy, then, presupposes a view of exterior reality which it goes on to contradict” and J.R.R.Tolkien pointed out the fantasy was “founded upon the hard recognition that things are so in the world as it appears under the sun; on a recognition of fact but not a slavery to it.” (Critical Reader of Week 4, p.3) I think this is the definition of fantasy by J.R.R.Tolkien.
Hi Guys, thanks for all the answers. No one has answered no 1. clearly yet. So I think my answer may help. How does Tolkien (1964) define fantasy Compare and contrast this to the other definitions from last week’s reader.
Tolkien(1964) defined "Fantasy" as a rash adventure(p.9) and he defined fairy as a tale about fairy or legend, an unreal or incredible story and a falsehood(p.10). Tolkien used the word "fairy" instead of "fantasy" may be because fairy links to more meanings like dwarfs, witches, trolls, giants, dragons, elves and fays: it holds the seas, the sun, the moon, the sky, and the earth, and all things that are in it: tree and bird, water and stone, wine and bread, and ourselves, mortal men, when we are enchanted(p.14).
But Attebery, B.(1980) pointed out that Fantasy is a game of sorts, and it demands that one play whole-heartedly, accepting for the moment all rules and turns of the game(p.3). He also think that fantasy is the model generated within the story itself(p.4).
Hi Jan, glad to see that you have shown us the clear definition of fantasy by J.R.R.Tolkien I think. Just like what Aldous and I mentioned before, the fantasy is as Tolkien said “founded upon the hard recognition that things are so in the world as it appears under the sun; on a recognition of fact but not a slavery to it.” (Critical Reader, p.3)
Hi all, Sorry for my late answer. I agree with Jan's opinion about question 1. After reading Tolken's text, I felt that fantasy has to relate to dwarfs, witches, trolls, giants, dragons, elves and fays. Why I felt like this is that Tolkien (1964) describes Drayton's Nymphidia as a "dull story" so it is "the worst ever written", although it is "considered as a fairy-story" (p.12). So I felt that fantasy shouldn't be dull or dark, and it should involve dwarfs or elves in the story not to be dull. In addition, Tolkien (1964) states that "I will not attempt to difine that (a fairy-story)" (p.14), so it is difficult to find the answer, I think.
Hi guys, no one have answered the question 4 yet, so I’d like to answer it. What other influences does Burn (2005) suggest for Harry Potter? After reading the critical reader of Burn (2005), I find out that the writer analyzed many influences from many realms such as literature, film, game, and cross-media literacy. For example, in the section of “Media literacy: multimodal or mode-specific”, Burn pointed out that the three versions (game, book, and film) were in related but rather different ways, which of Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets constructed a child-hero as a vulnerable but courageous opponent of assorted monsters, adults, and metaphors for fear of the dark, an admirable character for some of the children, ‘plagued by honour’, but for others, a ‘teacher’s pet’, too good to be really interesting. So the influence in media realm, Harry Potter is connecting with the meaning which analyzed above changing understanding of the place of children in the world, the possibilities of contesting adult power on the one hand, but looking to it for protection on the other; the importance of friendship and the culture of their age group.
Hi Jocelyn～^-^ As you said the writer analyzed many influences from many realms such as literature, film, game, and cross-media literacy. “There are some similarities between book and film.....Important examples of this here are Harry’s face and physical presence, realized as Daniel Radcliffe. This, as a semiotic syntagm, or string of signs, makes its truth-claim partly through signifiers derived from the book (the black hair, green eyes and scar); and partly in the replication of the features of the actor already successfully established as ‘Harry Potter’ in the first film (Burn,2005). And I think just because of the film, game, and cross-media literacy shows the different aspects of Harry Potter. It’s really hard to identify which form of Harry Potter made this character and the story to be popular. Maybe just because of the successful of the film, people become interested in the novel of Harry Potter.
Hello. I agree with Jocelyn's suggestion of question 4, but I interpreted it the other way around. Children in the world understand and analyse the story and characters. For instance, Burn (2005) mentions that some children said Harry and Frodo have simular characteristics: both of them are aware of "a hero-character as marked by his(their) vulnerability and need for helpers as by his(their) courage", and both of them "are always coming to harm". What I want to say is that all the media which concern Harry Potter (such as films, games, and books) influenced children to be aware of the differences and similarities between Harry Potter and the other stories; L of R is a case in point.
By the way, do you guys think we can post our fanfiction proposal under this thread? Or should we create another thread for it? Or you guys already sent him by email?
19 comments:
1. How does Tolkien (1964) define fantasy Compare and contrast this to the other definitions from last week’s reader.
2. Is Tolkien’s notion of the ‘faery story’ linked to fantasy genre? How closely?
3. What parallels can you find between A Wizard of Earthsea and the Harry Potter franchise?
4. What other influences does Burn (2005) suggest for Harry Potter?
5. How does the fantasy genre relate to modern media such as video games?
6. Why does the religious right in the US condemn fantasy, according to Cockrell (2004)? On what grounds does Cockrell defend fantasy literature, using Harry Potter as example?
Hi there~
Let’s start our week 5 blog.
I wanna talk about Question 2: Is Tolkien’s notion of the ‘fairy story’ linked to fantasy genre? How closely? Yes, the ‘fairy story’ linked to fantasy genre. Tolkien accepts the lexicographer’s definition of fairies: “supper natural beings of diminutive size, in popular belief supposed to possess magical powers and to have great influence for good or evil over the affairs of man” (CR, P10). So, fairy story is a type of fantasy. Tolkien also mentioned that“Fantasy is a natural human activity, Fantasy is human’s imagination with images of things that are not only not actually present, but which are indeed not to be found in our primary world at all ” (CR, P45). So, the ‘fairy story’ linked to fantasy genre. But fantasy can be put to evil uses. To be continued...^-^
hi Shirley, I would like to answer no 3. What parallels can you find between A Wizard of Earthsea and the Harry Potter franchise?
Gen and Harry both had discovered that they have the talent in the magical power when they were in the childhood and prior entering to the magical school. Gen and Harry both had magical power talents by blood, Gen's power through his aunt and Harry's power through his parents. In these two stories, Gen and Harry both had friends and enemies. The structures of these two stories are quite similar.
Hi Jan，I agree with your point of view! ^-^
A Wizard of Earthsea and the Harry Potter are both magic novels. The bizarre magic attracts people to read these two novels and both of them are to be continued, the destiny of the dramatis personae is under the writer’s pen. Both of them show the fight between good and evil. In Wizard of Earthsea, the good ones fight against the “Old Powers”. In Harry Potter, the good ones defense against the “Dark Arts”. A Wizard of Earthsea and the Harry Potter, the naive friendship between kids reflects the complicated conflicts of adults. One more thing, I think they are both low-fantasy.
Hi shirley, I'm not so sure - I think that "A Wizard of Earthsea" is a 'High Fantasy' and "Harry Potter" is a 'Low Fantasy'. Let's see what other members would say about this one.
Re: Jan
I have agreement with your point that "Harry Potter is a low fantasy and Wizard of Earthsea or The lord of the Rings are high fantasy". In my opinion, the reason why because Harry Potter is not the lightweight imitation of such serious high fantasy as the others as I mentioned before such as The lord of the Rings and Wizard of Earthsea which are considered as the high fantasy. Therefore, all in all, Harry Potter is a low fantasy.
Hi,all, I wanna focus on the question 1 and question 5.
1. How does Tolkien (1964) define fantasy Compare and contrast this to the other definitions from last week’s reader.
Well, I'm afraid I can't find the definition of fantasy by J.R.R.Tolkien. Anyone please post for me if you got the definition of fnatasy. According to the Wikipedia (2008), it give a extremely understandable and detailed explanation of the word fantasy and explained as that fantasy can be considered as a genre which uses lots of magic and the other supernatural forms as a bacical element of going through the plot,theme, and setting of from the stories. The fantasy is commonly focus on science fiction and horror and adventureal by the expectation that it stters clear of technological and macabre themes as well as that there is no doubt that there are many famous fantasy writting artists such as the God of Fantasy J.R.R. Tolkien.
Moreover, basing on the other definitons of fantasy, Globaloness (2008) give a different explanation of fantasy compare with the definition given by Wikipedia and highlights the characters in fantasy stories as well as Characteristics of fantasy fiction and its many overlapping sub-genres are the subjects of debate among some fans and writers. A critical characteristic is that the world features some difference from Earth that is not a result of science or technology, but rather the result of magic or other anomalous phenomena. But, again, definitions and opinions on the proper classification differ. As a genre, fantasy is both associated and contrasted with science fiction and horror fiction.
I also wanna answer the question 5.
5. How does the fantasy genre relate to modern media such as video games?
No one can deny that there are couples of video game basing on the hot fantasy stories such as Harry Potter, The load of the Rings and so on. Let's go back the question how does the fantasy genre relate to modern media such as video games? When the fantasy story comes out and publish to the reader, if the story is really popular to the readers such as Harry Potter, it's such a really mordern way to creat the story into the game video or even the movie. Basing on the original fantasy story, the video game must be based on the story's main plot, theme and main characters. Therefore, as we can see, it is clearly to see that the fantasy genre and modern media such as video games keep very close and the relationship is basing and being based. Sometimes in order to make the video game more dramatic and colourful, they change the plot from the original fantasy or add some more characters into the game video if necessary. However, the main point is that the main plot, background and theme of the fantasy story is not changed.
Furthermore, fantasy can be considerd as the popilar genre and adapting to the fantasy movies have been increasingly popular. According to the Wikipedia (2008), it is fantasy literature which has always been the genre's primary medium. Fantasy role-playing games cross several different media. The "pen & paper" role-playing game Dungeons & Dragons was the first and is arguably the most successful and influential, and the science fantasy role-playing game series Final Fantasy has been an icon of the console RPG genre.
hi guys. i agree with shirley about the parallels between Earthsea and Harry Potter. As for question number 6, Cockrell suggests that the religious right in the US condemns fantasy because they believe it encourages children to misbehave and be rude to their superiors, and may lead to lying and other deceitful behaviour.
Cockrell defends fantasy literature by explaining that magic is like any other science that should be studied.
Just to add to question 6, in . "Harry Potter and the Witch Hunters: a Social Context for the Attacks on Harry Potter", Amanda Cockrell suggests that the series caused controversy because
1). Harry Potter lives in our world (i.e. lives among non magical citizens in London) and
2.those in opposition are frequently parodied throughout the series (i.e. The Dursley’s as an example of any child’s most awful relatives).
Hi guys, I am sorry to start this week’s discussion so late. After reading you guys’ comments, I wanna say something about those questions as well.
First of all, I agree with Shirley’s opinion of question 2, because just like what she mentioned “fairy story is a type of fantasy”. Exactly, maybe many supernatural or immortal beings (i.e. fairy, elf, leprechaun, etc.) are existent in the world, but who knows? And who has witnessed them? The fairy story was created on the basis of human beings’ life, and their action, feeling, words, and so on in the story liked natural human’s activity, too.
Secondly, about the question 3, I agree with Jan and Aldous’s views. That’s because I think “A Wizard of Earthsea” is in accord with the description of wikipedia about the high fantasy’s features “these stories are generally serious in tone and often epic in scope, dealing with themes of grand struggle against supernatural, evil forces…Some typical characteristics of high fantasy include fantastical elements such as elves and dwarves, magic, wizards, invented languages, quests, coming-of-age themes, and multi-volume narratives.” However, the Harry Potter just like what low fantasy is: downplaying of epic or dramatic aspects, de-emphasising magic, real-world settings, realism, cynical storytelling and dark fantasy (wikipedia). So, I think “A Wizard of Earthsea” is high fantasy while “Harry Potter” belongs to the low fantasy realm.
Finally, I want to reply to Aldous’s question about the question 1. From last week’s reader, I find that “Fantasy, then, presupposes a view of exterior reality which it goes on to contradict” and J.R.R.Tolkien pointed out the fantasy was “founded upon the hard recognition that things are so in the world as it appears under the sun; on a recognition of fact but not a slavery to it.” (Critical Reader of Week 4, p.3) I think this is the definition of fantasy by J.R.R.Tolkien.
Hi Guys, thanks for all the answers. No one has answered no 1. clearly yet. So I think my answer may help. How does Tolkien (1964) define fantasy Compare and contrast this to the other definitions from last week’s reader.
Tolkien(1964) defined "Fantasy" as a rash adventure(p.9) and he defined fairy as a tale about fairy or legend, an unreal or incredible story and a falsehood(p.10). Tolkien used the word "fairy" instead of "fantasy" may be because fairy links to more meanings like dwarfs, witches, trolls, giants, dragons, elves and fays: it holds the seas, the sun, the moon, the sky, and the earth, and all things that are in it: tree and bird, water and stone, wine and bread, and ourselves, mortal men, when we are enchanted(p.14).
But Attebery, B.(1980) pointed out that Fantasy is a game of sorts, and it demands that one play whole-heartedly, accepting for the moment all rules and turns of the game(p.3). He also think that fantasy is the model generated within the story itself(p.4).
Hi Jan, glad to see that you have shown us the clear definition of fantasy by J.R.R.Tolkien I think. Just like what Aldous and I mentioned before, the fantasy is as Tolkien said “founded upon the hard recognition that things are so in the world as it appears under the sun; on a recognition of fact but not a slavery to it.” (Critical Reader, p.3)
Hi all,
Sorry for my late answer.
I agree with Jan's opinion about question 1. After reading Tolken's text, I felt that fantasy has to relate to dwarfs, witches, trolls, giants, dragons, elves and fays. Why I felt like this is that Tolkien (1964) describes Drayton's Nymphidia as a "dull story" so it is "the worst ever written", although it is "considered as a fairy-story" (p.12). So I felt that fantasy shouldn't be dull or dark, and it should involve dwarfs or elves in the story not to be dull.
In addition, Tolkien (1964) states that "I will not attempt to difine that (a fairy-story)" (p.14), so it is difficult to find the answer, I think.
Hi guys, no one have answered the question 4 yet, so I’d like to answer it.
What other influences does Burn (2005) suggest for Harry Potter?
After reading the critical reader of Burn (2005), I find out that the writer analyzed many influences from many realms such as literature, film, game, and cross-media literacy. For example, in the section of “Media literacy: multimodal or mode-specific”, Burn pointed out that the three versions (game, book, and film) were in related but rather different ways, which of Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets constructed a child-hero as a vulnerable but courageous opponent of assorted monsters, adults, and metaphors for fear of the dark, an admirable character for some of the children, ‘plagued by honour’, but for others, a ‘teacher’s pet’, too good to be really interesting.
So the influence in media realm, Harry Potter is connecting with the meaning which analyzed above changing understanding of the place of children in the world, the possibilities of contesting adult power on the one hand, but looking to it for protection on the other; the importance of friendship and the culture of their age group.
Hi Jocelyn～^-^
As you said the writer analyzed many influences from many realms such as literature, film, game, and cross-media literacy. “There are some similarities between book and film.....Important examples of this here are Harry’s face and physical presence, realized as Daniel Radcliffe. This, as a semiotic syntagm, or string of signs, makes its truth-claim partly through signifiers derived from the book (the black hair, green eyes and scar); and partly in the replication of the features of the actor already successfully established as ‘Harry Potter’ in the first film (Burn,2005). And I think just because of the film, game, and cross-media literacy shows the different aspects of Harry Potter. It’s really hard to identify which form of Harry Potter made this character and the story to be popular. Maybe just because of the successful of the film, people become interested in the novel of Harry Potter.
Hello. I agree with Jocelyn's suggestion of question 4, but I interpreted it the other way around.
Children in the world understand and analyse the story and characters. For instance, Burn (2005) mentions that some children said Harry and Frodo have simular characteristics: both of them are aware of "a hero-character as marked by his(their) vulnerability and need for helpers as by his(their) courage", and both of them "are always coming to harm".
What I want to say is that all the media which concern Harry Potter (such as films, games, and books) influenced children to be aware of the differences and similarities between Harry Potter and the other stories; L of R is a case in point.
By the way, do you guys think we can post our fanfiction proposal under this thread? Or should we create another thread for it? Or you guys already sent him by email?
Just to create a new thread I think, so let's begin to do it:)
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